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Thread: An experiment

  1. #111
    Natarian Knight emotion180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remoria View Post
    Apparently you've never had children. Fixing all your kids problems is plain bad parenting and is going to screw your kid up and make him/her worthless. You've got to let your kid screw up and fix the problems they got themselves into, and sometimes you even throw some problems out there to help them grow.
    Surely it's better to just have faultless children.
    • F I T •
    In Sharpy we trust

  2. #112
    Natarian Knight owning's Avatar
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    If a parent lets his children kill eachother and doesnt do anything he will go to jail.

  3. #113
    Natarian Knight REDSHEILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remoria View Post
    Apparently you've never had children. Fixing all your kids problems is plain bad parenting and is going to screw your kid up and make him/her worthless. You've got to let your kid screw up and fix the problems they got themselves into, and sometimes you even throw some problems out there to help them grow.
    I was referencing the TVtropes page on Neglectful Gods, which, among other things, don't do anything, at all.
    "SUUM TANTUM A PULPA VULNUS"-footman.
    Quote Originally Posted by sharpy View Post
    A message for Ramrod: Don't reproduce, ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by sharpy
    To REDSHEILD, if he happens to see this: I suppose I am a Grammar N*zi at heart.
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  4. #114
    Utisz
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenobia View Post
    As to proof of intelligent design, there will always be those who take the "ostrich sticking his head in the sand" approach to things=(if I don't see it; it doesn't exist). But they can hold on to that notion til the day they cease to exist and then it won't matter.
    We all are entitled to our own opinions and that is the beauty of the human mind.

    But facts will always remain as they are and will only be found by those willing to search for them.
    There is a saying "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts". You can go ahead and believe in god if you so wish to do so and I for one will not stop you, however please do not claim that the evidence of god is self evident or supported by the balance of evidence. If after all the existence of the Christian god was proven beyond doubt what would be the purpose of faith?

    In essence I like my Christians to be fideists and nonliteralists, because that way I don't need to listen to nonsense about the earth being 10,000 years old or about tape worms being beautiful.

    As for Morgasshk points, the problem of evil is not self contradictory.
    1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.
    2. There is evil in the world.
    3. Therefore, an all-powerful and perfectly good god does not exist.
    You can see well you may not agree with premise one it does not contradict itself. I actually think it is a very good argument but one that is unfortunately almost useless in debate because it'll just get answered with the stock freewill defense and then trying to defend premise one becomes time consuming and dull. Hence why I don't use it, I also would not call it the main argument against the existence of god or for atheism, it is not.

    No one really bothered to answer the opening poster because his question was essentially retarded, there are thousands of good questions in the world it's not my job to go out and find them for other people.

    I always liked this passage.
    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Br...ok_V/Chapter_4

    "This poor child of five was subjected to every possible torture by those cultivated parents. They beat her, thrashed her, kicked her for no reason till her body was one bruise. Then, they went to greater refinements of cruelty- shut her up all night in the cold and frost in a privy, and because she didn't ask to be taken up at night (as though a child of five sleeping its angelic, sound sleep could be trained to wake and ask), they smeared her face and filled her mouth with excrement, and it was her mother, her mother did this. And that mother could sleep, hearing the poor child's groans! Can you understand why a little creature, who can't even understand what's done to her, should beat her little aching heart with her tiny fist in the dark and the cold, and weep her meek unresentful tears to dear, kind God to protect her? Do you understand that, friend and brother, you pious and humble novice? Do you understand why this infamy must be and is permitted? Without it, I am told, man could not have existed on earth, for he could not have known good and evil. Why should he know that diabolical good and evil when it costs so much? Why, the whole world of knowledge is not worth that child's prayer to dear, kind God'! I say nothing of the sufferings of grown-up people, they have eaten the @pple, damn them, and the devil take them all! But these little ones! I am making you suffer, Alyosha, you are not yourself. I'll leave off if you like."

    "Nevermind. I want to suffer too," muttered Alyosha.
    Last edited by Utisz; 26.11.2010 at 22:41.

  5. #115
    Thorned Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by emotion180 View Post
    Surely it's better to just have faultless children.
    Ok thats officially the dumbest thing in the forum even worse than the OPs question or anything owning has ever spouted on these boards.... no offense owning



    Quote Originally Posted by owning View Post
    If a parent lets his children kill eachother and doesnt do anything he will go to jail.
    You'll note though that that would be according to most religions a mortal sin and therefore merits one of the greatest punishments, in christian terms, eternal damnation, budhist being reincarnated as a tapeworm doesn't sound very pleasant either.

    When their is no higher authority IE god has no court of appeals then god is responsible for dolling out the punishment and cannot be held accountable for humanities actions.

    A scientist working with super virus's knows they can cause great harm, but if a terrorist steals and releases the virus its not his fault.



    (Bleh I don't want to be involved in this argument why am I posting.... )

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remoria View Post
    Apparently you've never had children. Fixing all your kids problems is plain bad parenting and is going to screw your kid up and make him/her worthless. You've got to let your kid screw up and fix the problems they got themselves into, and sometimes you even throw some problems out there to help them grow.
    Good illustration; I was actually thinking the same thing.


    REDSHIELD>If he doesn't put an end to them then he is just neglectful.

    Causing them, on the other hand...
    Now that's most illogical. Allowing something is not the same as causing it. That's like blaming policemen for all the crime, because they have the authority to stop it. They can only do their part in keeping peace and order, the rest is up to individuals.
    If God were to end all evil, he would take away all free will of transgressors and destroy them. Is that what you want?

  7. #117
    Natarian Knight
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenobia View Post
    Now that's most illogical. Allowing something is not the same as causing it. That's like blaming policemen for all the crime, because they have the authority to stop it. They can only do their part in keeping peace and order, the rest is up to individuals.
    If God were to end all evil, he would take away all free will of transgressors and destroy them. Is that what you want?
    I might be wrong, but didn't Redshield precisely say allowing and causing aren't the same thing?

  8. #118
    Natarian Knight REDSHEILD's Avatar
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    I did. I also implied that causing a bad thing makes one an evil god.
    "SUUM TANTUM A PULPA VULNUS"-footman.
    Quote Originally Posted by sharpy View Post
    A message for Ramrod: Don't reproduce, ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by sharpy
    To REDSHEILD, if he happens to see this: I suppose I am a Grammar N*zi at heart.
    <(-_-)><(@-@)><(o.0)> <dragons.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDSHEILD View Post
    I did. I also implied that causing a bad thing makes one an evil god.
    You're right, if he caused evil.
    But God did not cause evil. ( for with evil things [form of ka‧kos′] God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.Jas 1:13,*14)
    He Created everything originally perfect. But the defect and evil stemmed from a selfish desire opposite of good, created by one's own willfullness.

  10. #120
    Natarian Knight Woden87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenobia View Post
    You're right, if he caused evil.
    But God did not cause evil. ( “for with evil things [form of ka‧kos′] God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.”—Jas 1:13,*14)
    He Created everything originally perfect. But the defect and evil stemmed from a selfish desire opposite of good, created by one's own willfullness.
    First of all: Wow, it took you that long to make such a short response? That's, what, a week, week-and-a-half? I'd hate to see how long it takes you to type out an essay... >_>

    Anyways, you can claim that God did not directly create evil, but... what he did with the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil isn't far from it. If he had really wanted to have Adam and Eve not eat from the Tree, he would have done something like this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY6Dn0_hBOY

    I mean, seriously, he is supposedly omniscient, yet either:
    A) He did not know that the snake was tempting Eve, or:
    B) He allowed Eve to eat the fruit, while she did not understand the difference between right and wrong, and then used that as an excuse to punish Adam and Eve and all of their descendants for all time.

    So, either he's not omniscient (and a bit of an ***hole), or he's a complete ***hole.
    Last edited by Woden87; 07.12.2010 at 05:41.

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