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Thread: Cause no one else is saying it...

  1. #1
    Axerider
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    Default Cause no one else is saying it...

    Seriously, why is no one mentioning LULZ? We basically beat the crap out of evils and were the strongest alliance until we got reshuffled afterwards :P. So thanks to all the amazing guys and girls that were there; Slone, Assadi, Ellivnad, djchill (loved your drunk rants), aspenfolly/lissy cat, kaylene and all the others..

    My regrets of this server: LULZ joining TR. Of course TR is a great team, but we gave up our independence for nothing (I'm sure they would've given us defense and offensive help against EVILS without us retagging, but yeah, hindsight is always 20/20)

    Afterwards slone and I tried to go for a semi-independent NW, but Lind didn't want this, which of course is quite understandable. And, what I'll never understand, Mark Johnston didn't like it either. With his support, things would've been MUCH different but he was happy with the way things were...

    Not that I'm angry at him or something for that, I just would've prefered an independent NW

  2. #2
    Flufie
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    Quote Originally Posted by axerman View Post
    I just would've prefered an independent NW

    There is always next round for that

  3. #3
    Axerider markjohnston's Avatar
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    I use my real name in the game because while I am fully aware it is an imaginary world, I try my best to play (and in this case lead) as I would in real life.

    I made a deal with Lind to bring over RED and ~RED~ to TR! under certain conditions (help in the way of troops was obviously one). I had no desire to be a "meta leader" and no one else was stepping up to the plate either. wozek was gone, dusty bottom's short reign was over and he was gone. I was in a position I didn't want to be in and, quite frankly, had neither the time nor skill to get all those people out of.

    so, the deal was struck and we joined TR! we never joined as friends or buddies, we joined TR! that was the deal.

    fast forward a few months and TR! helped us clean out EVILS and we all wiped the floor with LUX (as we have seen now, a lot was going on behind the scenes there).

    so, at that point, you wanted me to leave TR!, break the deal we made and start something new in the NW...and you "can't understand" why I didn't want to do that? I would never break a deal in real life, so...not in the game either.

    next round if chance finds me in a leadership position again, my word will be worth something.

    I don't need to change names on the forum, in the game or anywhere. people now know what my word is worth

    I know you aren't going after me, but I guess we just see the game in different ways and get our fun from it differently - no harm, no foul there! a game is what you make it!
    Triumph

  4. #4
    Axerider
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    Quote Originally Posted by markjohnston View Post
    I use my real name in the game because while I am fully aware it is an imaginary world, I try my best to play (and in this case lead) as I would in real life.

    I made a deal with Lind to bring over RED and ~RED~ to TR! under certain conditions (help in the way of troops was obviously one). I had no desire to be a "meta leader" and no one else was stepping up to the plate either. wozek was gone, dusty bottom's short reign was over and he was gone. I was in a position I didn't want to be in and, quite frankly, had neither the time nor skill to get all those people out of.

    so, the deal was struck and we joined TR! we never joined as friends or buddies, we joined TR! that was the deal.

    fast forward a few months and TR! helped us clean out EVILS and we all wiped the floor with LUX (as we have seen now, a lot was going on behind the scenes there).

    so, at that point, you wanted me to leave TR!, break the deal we made and start something new in the NW...and you "can't understand" why I didn't want to do that? I would never break a deal in real life, so...not in the game either.

    next round if chance finds me in a leadership position again, my word will be worth something.

    I don't need to change names on the forum, in the game or anywhere. people now know what my word is worth

    I know you aren't going after me, but I guess we just see the game in different ways and get our fun from it differently - no harm, no foul there! a game is what you make it!
    I didn't (and still don't) see it as breaking a deal. What slone and I wanted was an independent NW but we didn't want to backstab tr either. So we had our hopes up for a semi-independent NW, confedded with TR (officially or unofficially), and with the explicit approval of Lindvior. I don't see making a new deal as breaking a previous deal though. In my eyes if you were in favor of a semi-independent NW (with Lind's approval), you wouldn't be breaking your word.

  5. #5
    Axerider markjohnston's Avatar
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    I guess we just disagree there.

    also, none of us in RED or ~RED~ felt like a "NW wing"...we were in TR! longer and just felt like...TR!

    add to that I was part of the "management team" and was privy to a lot of planning, the entire forums, etc, etc. I liked the direction, Lind, my players were happy...even if I didn't want to break a deal, I didn't want to leave either.

    different strokes for different folks!
    Triumph

  6. #6
    Natarian Knight rikacomet's Avatar
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    as agreed with flufie i'm , i would just say this

    "there can't be too lions in a den" so your point of a SEMI - independance is not something i would agree with
    Live for the good people, not for the strong ones.

  7. #7
    Natarian Knight ELM's Avatar
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    No one wants to break their word nor backstab anyone....that's why you don't make definite and conclusive deals so early on a server. You want to leave a few options available...

    In your case (and LULZ), for example, there was no need for a total absorption by another quad's meta so early on the server with so many things that could happen. You tried to work with EVILS, when you found that it was impossible to do so, you didn't need to re-tag and become TR's wings.

    Same happened with TKO and TR... so LUX and EVILS confeded? Fine. Get on the negotiation table and say: "hey, you take care of the NW, we take care of the SW, we'll need your help in the center or whatever" then, after that is done, you negotiate what to do next.

    In both cases, seems like the deal was to stay together for the following 6 or 7 months. That of course, left you no options. A deal like that can't be ended/re-designed without someone feeling like backstabbing or betraying the other one.

    Is like marrying your junior highschool's sweetheart because you told her that you loved her....
    2009-2010: Emilio
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    2013: 3WM&aLady

  8. #8
    Axerider markjohnston's Avatar
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    I see what you're saying ELM, and we did go it alone for a while as RED and ~RED~, but the mudslide of players continued to the point where it wasn't just "flash-in-the-pan" players like the judge and the rest of the JTers who were leaving, but SCDers and long-time NWers who were jumping ship as well.

    we were bleeding out big time, had essentially no offensive players (there were a few left in the centre, but that was it).

    ad to that what I talked about in the lack of meta leader, and you have what we had. the decision appeared to be mine (everyone else was happy to let me do it), and I went with what I thought would make our players happy. I don't regret it at all, but it may not have been the decision others would make.

    a loose deal like you talk about was also not on the table from lind. clearly, he knew that a deal like that would mean THEY do the work and then WE reap the rewards, and possibly come back to haunt them in endgame. Lind was too smart to have a deal like that pulled on him, and TR! as a whole still stung from their "shared win" with a smooth talked the previous round
    Triumph

  9. #9
    Guardsman Hologram's Avatar
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    We wouldn't have accepted RED/~RED~ in a semi anything deal. They had players in the NE, and we wanted them (them being RED/~RED~) as a fully integrated part of TR!. We weren't about to waste alliance def, resources, and time to help people who might leave us and who we would have to fight later on if they did leave us. That didn't benefit us at all, and really at that time, RED/~RED~ needed us more than we needed them. I'm not saying we didn't need them, but in an agreement of this nature usually one side needs more help than the other.

    You tried to work with EVILS, when you found that it was impossible to do so, you didn't need to re-tag and become TR's wings.
    As stated above, we would not have accepted RED/~RED~ without a re-tag/total integration. They had very little/almost no def left. They were being harassed offensively by EVILS and weren't able to properly defend their players. Put it together and you get that they did need to re-tag to survive. For the first couple of weeks it was TR!'s NE border def that caught EVILS hammers. After RED/~RED~ had some time to recover they were better able to protect, and eventually respond with their own attacks. But it was because they got that breathing space from our def that they were able to do so.

    It's easy to say now that they didn't need us, but in reality, I think they did. RED/~RED~ leadership was burnt out, and didn't have the will to lead, their players didn't have the resources/troops to defend with, and offensively I don't believe they were doing much either. With our defensive help, they were able to recover. With our offensive focus we pushed EVILS back (and in a big way) to give them even more breathing space.

    Let's not sell Mark short either. Mark did try at first to go without the re-tag. He tried for a confed/NAP. But I wasn't willing to deal on that deck. I told him full integration and become TR!, or no deal. It took awhile for him to break before he accepted our offer. He tried again with EVILS, but when that didn't work, and the situation grew more dire for RED/~RED~, he accepted my offer. I don't believe it's a decision Mark, or most of the RED/~RED~ players regret. I believe they had enough time to truly integrate into TR!, and hope that they came to like their NE counterparts and our system.

    "there can't be too lions in a den" so your point of a SEMI - independance is not something i would agree with
    This sums it up.

    I would like to believe, and I may be completely wrong, that there are at least some in TR!-Lulz who liked being a part of TR!. We never did get the opportunity to properly integrate the wing due to the desire for independence of some of the leaders, and then later on the fact that most of our leaders became busy either with real life or with different issues in the alliance, but I do hope they got an opportunity to see some of what TR! is about anyways. Either way, Lulz, RED, and ~RED~ all gained an equal share in TR!'s WW win today, no less than BULO, XO, UMPH, MaD, AD, or any of the TKO wings.

    s3.com - Triumph

  10. #10
    Natarian Knight ELM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hologram View Post
    We wouldn't have accepted RED/~RED~ in a semi anything deal. They had players in the NE, and we wanted them (them being RED/~RED~) as a fully integrated part of TR!. We weren't about to waste alliance def, resources, and time to help people who might leave us and who we would have to fight later on if they did leave us.......
    ......As stated above, we would not have accepted RED/~RED~ without a re-tag/total integration......
    ......Let's not sell Mark short either. Mark did try at first to go without the re-tag. He tried for a confed/NAP. But I wasn't willing to deal on that deck. I told him full integration and become TR!, or no deal.......
    ........Either way, Lulz, RED, and ~RED~ all gained an equal share in TR!'s WW win today, no less than BULO, XO, UMPH, MaD, AD, or any of the TKO wings........
    That says a lot about your way of seeing the game and your diplomatic approach. I'm not saying is right or wrong...I'm just saying is rather "unusual" to take in wings from another quad when the server is so young.
    Most of the people don't like overly large metas. You start recruiting too much, confeding too much getting too many allies, etc... and people will start whinning about simming, lacking farms, no one to fight, etc... That's what "usually" happens. If that didn't happen in TR (as i think it didn't) it has very much to do with the perception of the big, bad an ugly SW and the determination to beat them at "whatever cost".
    As an example, last round we worked with NA for like 2 or 3 entire months when we were fighting TKO when we finnally confeded and they retagged to SEU, joined our forums, etc... Doing so earlier, would've caused too much drama within our own members..

    It did work for you though, you killed EVILS rather swiftly and scared LUX into collapse...but on the other hand, you got the "negativity" you mentioned your self in your message to Topi the other day. But since you seem to care little about what the "whinners and sour losers" think, looks like it was a sweet deal to you anyway...:=)

    @Mark: I really didn't know that's the way it went... I do remember hearing repeatedly the speech about the NW win, the NW independance, etc... However, listening what you say, I can understand better your decision. Being that said, it seems to contradict what pieter is saying. He is claiming LULZ killed EVILS...but hearing Hologram and you, looks like EVILS was killing and dominating the NW until TR stepped in.
    2009-2010: Emilio
    2012: Sinister
    2013: 3WM&aLady

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