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Thread: Formal Message from Wild Alpha Council

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    And yet, the RED leadership who were involved in this plot right from the beginning didn't lose their honour?
    I think, if we are going to judge this scenario as a matter of 'honour', that certain Alphas maintained theirs while others did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    Did some one put a gun to their head and force them to this agreement? It's cool for people who have held position of Alpha to come on the forums and blast Wild when the whole deal was still under the table?
    You sit on the Alpha council, even for a day, you gain responsibility to take care of the average member of Wild.
    You do. And when you have gone out of your way to let your 'average member of Wild' come into the NE area (because we are allies), settle around RED's villages (because we are allies), take juicy NE grey zone spots first (because you have 4 wings in one quad, we had one at the time, and weren't so easily free to take those slots quickly - because we are allies), and having 'because we are allies' being the reason given for every significant dispute between RED/Wild Alphas, then it's sure that there is going to be some hurt feelings when - despite all efforts to the contrary - Gira et al simply remove the RED Alphas, have a vote (the first vote on that Council this server) and then rush to the forums to create a drama storm with such cogent argumentation and references as "you suck". Keeping in mind that, as my theory goes, a number of Wild's alphas had no intention of trying to make the relationship between RED/Wild work. I'm referring explicitly to Ice/Fox here. Fox's posts in this thread alone (heck, just one of his posts), sum to more words than the entirety of his contribution to the joint Alpha Skype channel, even in the midst of all the drama that was caused by the aforementioned tension-increasing variables.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    And yet, didn't PF come on here and have a ridiculous brawl with Froggy? Didn't they both go at it with gusto calling out Wild and RED respectively for perceived inadequacies? The difference was one held the postion of Wild Alpha and knew what was going on. If the RED leadership disagreed or grew a conscience, they should have broken the deal off or never agreed to it in the first place. But it appears to me that RED didn't in fact break the agreement and go public, but Wild did.
    Do you believe in causation? The brawl started with Froggy creating a thread regarding a perceived failure in RED's alliance page (regarding no metas or whatever), after Black was recruited. You claim that there is a difference that "one knew what was going on" (PF) and that Froggy didn't, but in this very thread Froggy claims to have known that RED/Wild were an item since the early stages of this server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfrogz View Post
    You're right. There is absolutely nobody else in the NE capable of sharing information aside from RED players. I knew about the secret confed from day 1, even though I have no part in diplomacy, and have been planting dozens and dozens of spies in RED just because I never trusted you dirty scoundrels Ah, I just love the smell of pure genius.

    So no, Froggy isn't innocent. And when you look at it from that angle, that Froggy knew RED/Wild were an item, Froggy was deliberately trying to goad and insult his own alliance mates. Just because he isn't an Alpha doesn't give him free reign to troll others. And I assure you, given the sensitive egos of some of the Alphas, if he had been harassing/flaming those Alphas personally, he would have been made to delete from this server. This is a typical example of the double standard RED Alphas faced in their interactions with Wild from near the beginning of this server.


    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    We are all in the same cesspit together.
    Are we? If you had spent hundreds of hours trying to salvage the relationships between RED/Wild's Alpha Council over Skype, to have it end by being told 'you suck' on the forums, we would share the same cesspit. Because from my angle, I'm forced now to attack the people who were supposed to be my allies.

    And I want to make this clear: This is after I was told dozens of times by people from many different servers that I ought not to trust the very Alphas in question - that we would be betrayed at a whim.

    And here we are. Care to join me in my cesspit?

    I hope that this has made things more clear. If you'd like an even more comprehensive look into the RED/Wild thing feel free to PM me for my Skype information, as what is important to me is that the truth of what happened comes to light, instead of the nonsense put forward in the first two posts of this thread.

  2. #112
    Natarian Knight Odinsstaff's Avatar
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    @ DuncanIdaho, keep peddling your schoolyard kids' accusations of
    "Wild said we smell bad!" "Wild didn't care it was my birthday!"

    It was exactly that childish and in my opinion, callous announcement by Wild Alphas about this whole mess which set me off in the first place.
    I care a damn about why you broke your agreements. I give a rat's ***, no wait, overpayment, about what causes you had that led to this point.

    All I want is for leadership to take responsibility. Stand up and say to their membership "We are sorry we are in this mess. Can we move on and start the process of fixing it?"
    If you also want to give me the same bull-sh!t of how the other team didn't play fair and how they stole your lunch money and beat you up at recess, then stay away from me lest this madness of self pity and victimisation be catching!

    One point of yours that I will tender a serious response to though is the Froggy's claim of knowing about it from day one. I seriously doubt he knew it. Why he said what he said matters not one whit to me. And besides, this is like that old murder case where a man killed a woman and his defence lawyer got him acquitted not by proving his innocence, but by assaulting the character of the witnesses who were all streetwalkers.

    @ Flegmatic.
    My apologies to you if you are hurt by what I said. It wasn't my intention to drive you away from the forums. Indeed, the forums will be poorer if you don't post anymore.
    Please reconsider

  3. #113
    Axerider alpine's Avatar
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    @Duncan

    Dear Dr. Sheldon Cooper,

    About froggy's claim, cant you see it was sarcasm?
    Josh W / PTT s8 '08-'09, Alpine /WILD s6 '10-'11, /EaD ts10 '10-'11,
    Jack London /WILD ts7 '11-'12, ts2 '12-'13,
    Jack London /Infamous ts2 '13-14', Orbit / Wild ts1 '13-'14

  4. #114
    Caliban
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flegmatic View Post
    To be honest, at the start of this server i was looking towards working with Wild as i recognized quite a few of their players from the past.
    And you and your confederates proceeded to screw it up royally. Congrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flegmatic View Post
    Faustus warned me about Caliban being dishonest and knowing all the answers already, but did i listen? . . . I accuse Alpha of dishonesty and lack of understanding the very basis of travian itself
    You of all people are incompetent to lecture anyone on honor or honesty. Or do you need to be reminded yet again about your personal duplicity and double dealing trying to make cross-quad pacts against the alliance your team was allied with? Up until I learned of your betrayal, I granted you the honor and respect due to any of my teammates. From now on you will only get the respect you actually deserve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flegmatic View Post
    I still grief about the loss of authority and respect towards Ice and Cali. . .
    You, dear Alpha, lost your honor. If you would have been Japanese you wouldn't be able to handle easily this loss...
    If I understand you correctly, you are inviting us to commit suicide? What the hell is wrong with you people? Is this a requirement for all RED posters, or is it your lame attempt to keep alive the one disgusting tradition RED can actually call its own?

    And just for the record.... for a guy who screams this
    Quote Originally Posted by Flegmatic View Post
    I was NEVER your ally!!!
    one would think it is very hard to play the victim card. I have said what I have to say about this stuff. You want to continue with the personal attacks, I will be here to smack you down. Suit up and play the game. You wanted this you got it. Thank me later.

    DF|Caliban

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flegmatic View Post
    Something tells me it is going to be RED/Black. As this is still just a mid game this war will be long, but for those in Wild i just wish to say one thing. For the very first time you WILL experience what endgame is all about. I promise it feels different when you build a WW and someone is ACTUALLY attacking it...
    For all the bragging RED has done about their stats, not to mention all the RED players who said that WILD sucks, y'all did a pretty awful job in round 1 I somehow doubt you're going to get any better, because all of your farming in the NE has deluded you into thinking you've been fighting and are good, when in truth a ton of your players are still clueless.

    Quote Originally Posted by duncanidaho View Post
    You claim that there is a difference that "one knew what was going on" (PF) and that Froggy didn't, but in this very thread Froggy claims to have known that RED/Wild were an item since the early stages of this server.
    "Golly gee, Sherlock, this sure is a mystery! I wonder how we'll ever figure out what Froggy meant. We need to look harder, surely there must be a clue around here somewhere. Hmm, a post about sarcasm, that can't be it... Oh wait! GREAT SCOTT!!! I've found it!!! In one of his posts, Froggy clearly states that it was sarcasm, made obvious by the excessive hyperbole! Thank heavens we managed to spot this cleverly disguised clue and finally put an end to this fiendishly difficult and almost impossible to solve puzzle."

    Honestly, if I were a WILD Alpha forced to deal with the thinking of RED leaders like Duncan, I would have degenerated into sticking a finger down my throat every 5 minutes to purge myself quite some time ago.

  6. #116
    Thorned Warrior PurpLette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flegmatic View Post
    -snip-
    I challenge whole your group to eliminate one single me out of the game. Would you accept?
    Yay, is this one of those innocent requests to make yourself The Target every time? Wild will soooo fall for that one. Expect those armies to come crashing on your walls all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive_Rat View Post
    Gira is quiet now, is she back in the kitchen where she belongs?
    *rolls eyes*

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Wind View Post
    i just want to remind you all that this a game, even though sometimes things like this takes away all the joy of the game, but still its a game stop acting like kids pls, all the name calling and the insults arent necessary if u wanna have a go at eachother you can do so on the battlefield cause this is just childish and like super nerdy on a level beyond imagination
    So agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poor Faustus View Post
    -so very snipped- What's shocking is WILD having a blatant troll who speaks for them publicly who "cannot be trusted".

    I asked Gira to tell Froggy so time was not spent wasted attempting to safeguard RED's public persona. She refused as Froggy was "untrustworthy".
    As someone who knew about the relationship You came on the forum and were often, in my opinion, offensive in response to someone You considered a Troll. You knew and chose not to control your own behaviour. Instead you chose to post on the forum in the way you did for reasons that I can only decipher to be your own amusement.

    "cannot be trusted" The thing about secrets is they remain secret longer when less people know about them. I'm Gira's dual and I don't expect to be told every secret of Wild... is this because I'm not trustworthy? No, it's because I don't need to know. Did Froggy need to be told? No, since the other party was someone who did know. That highlights an obvious solution to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliban View Post
    -Miss snip a lot snips another bunch-
    all I can tell you is any alliance worth playing for has its secrets, be they military or diplomatic. Unless your alliance is a democracy, these are usually matters the members entrust to the leaders. Once revealed, you can yell at us, or call us idiots (as some have done quite rightly), or question our judgement, but what you cannot do is act as if the leaders were not empowered to make such decisions over your silent veto.
    And this is the Travian I love & hate all at the same time and I suspect I'd be bored to death if it wasn't. A Travian that wasn't full of surprises would be sooo boring

    Quote Originally Posted by Flegmatic View Post
    -tired of typing snip-
    I accuse Alpha of dishonesty and lack of understanding the very basis of travian itself and an attempt to cause quite a few tens of thousands of gold loss and wasted time and effort of thousands of players around this particular server by prohibiting their rights to have a normal run this year.
    Normal run? Maybe I just rolled on those abnormal servers full of secret deals, shady diplomacy, spies, plants and all that other stuff. I've been at both ends, so I understand you feeling bitter, if that's what you're feeling. Do I agree with what can be called shady tactics? Not particulary, but I accept it to be a part of the game. There are groups I'll never play for in future. On the other hand, other groups who also take full advantage of sly plots... I'd play with again. *second time Wild*

    Quote Originally Posted by duncanidaho View Post
    Are we? If you had spent hundreds of hours trying to salvage the relationships between RED/Wild's Alpha Council over Skype, to have it end by being told 'you suck' on the forums, we would share the same cesspit. Because from my angle, I'm forced now to attack the people who were supposed to be my allies.
    By memory, since I'm not going back to the first page again, it said 'you suck as a secret wing'. That doesn't mean everything about RED sucks... only that it was said RED sucked as a secret wing. It seems obvious from reading this thread, the actual relationship wasn't what any of you hoped for, so let's just consider it to be the truth as seen by both sides. Personally, it could have been more diplomatic. Note: I'm not the context police, it was a passing whim.

    Yep, thinking again that I shouldn't read this forum and find temptation to post. On a high note I did manage to stop my eyes rolling so much *whew*
    s4 09/10, PKs (ONE-G), s6 09/10 (ONE-P) as part of LMFAOD, ts8 2012 Xochiquetzal ()

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    @ DuncanIdaho, keep peddling your schoolyard kids' accusations of
    "Wild said we smell bad!" "Wild didn't care it was my birthday!"
    There are no 'accusations' in what I wrote. What I wrote was a correction of your mistaken interpretation of events. Simple cause->effect. If you don't want to recognize it, that's your prerogative, but don't claim to be doing anything other here than trolling (which is likely what your 1000+ other posts consist of).

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    It was exactly that childish and in my opinion, callous announcement by Wild Alphas about this whole mess which set me off in the first place.
    And that behavior was pervasive in the Alpha chat rooms also, and what I'm here to do is produce a true account of what happened, and offset the ridiculous tone in those posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    I care a damn about why you broke your agreements. I give a rat's ***, no wait, overpayment, about what causes you had that led to this point.
    And what makes you think I care what you, who persist in being blind to cause->effect, have to say? Again, my last post simply corrected you. Take it as you will, because I'm certainly not here to cater to your desires. Even your own leader (look at the post above this one) didn't seem to care for your cares/wants. Get used to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    If you also want to give me the same bull-sh!t of how the other team didn't play fair and how they stole your lunch money and beat you up at recess, then stay away from me lest this madness of self pity and victimisation be catching!
    Are you drunk? Look at the claims in the first posts of this thread, and then consider my more serious responses to those (the last few posts by me). If you're here simply to flame leadership then so be it, but drop the masquerade regarding taking posts seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    One point of yours that I will tender a serious response to though is the Froggy's claim of knowing about it from day one. I seriously doubt he knew it.
    Of course you would doubt it, but again you're just ignorant of what happened. I know that he knew about Wild/RED because I was one of those who implied it to him rather early on in this server. He knows who I am. And if I had simply said "he knew about it from day 1" it would look like an ad hoc counterargument to your claim in your post. It came from his mouth though, so doubt all you want - he knew it, and therefore your attempt to ignore cause->effect just shows you to be a biased loudmouth. Kudos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odinsstaff View Post
    Why he said what he said matters not one whit to me. And besides, this is like that old murder case where a man killed a woman and his defence lawyer got him acquitted not by proving his innocence, but by assaulting the character of the witnesses who were all streetwalkers.
    And that's not similar to this case at all. The point was - PF/RED were attacked by a WILD member who knew of the alliance, PF responded to the cause of it. End of story. Or is self-defense impermissible in this mystical court you're referring to?


    Quote Originally Posted by alpine View Post
    About froggy's claim, cant you see it was sarcasm?
    I guess I have time to provide an English lesson. I'll take the Sheldon reference as a compliment too, I suppose. But I could sure use some of that Southern cooking right about now. Yee-haw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfrogz View Post
    You're right. There is absolutely nobody else in the NE capable of sharing information aside from RED players.
    That's sarcasm. He is mocking a claim made by his opponent in this dialogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfrogz View Post
    I knew about the secret confed from day 1, even though I have no part in diplomacy, and have been planting dozens and dozens of spies in RED just because I never trusted you dirty scoundrels Ah, I just love the smell of pure genius.
    And that's not. He further mocks his opponent by showing that he knew about the confederation all along. He is rather active with respect to forums messaging and in game messaging, so it was bound to happen. And I know with certainty that he knew about the RED-WILD confederation far before his post set to antagonize RED. Therefore, a deliberate attempt to antagonize his own teammates.

    You probably shouldn't try sarcasm yourself (the Cooper comment) when a) you're ignorant with respect to reading sarcasm and b) you're further ignorant about the knowledge Frog had at the earlier times of this server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullfrogz View Post
    I wonder how we'll ever figure out what Froggy meant. We need to look harder, surely there must be a clue around here somewhere. Hmm, a post about sarcasm, that can't be it... Oh wait! GREAT SCOTT!!! I've found it!!! In one of his posts, Froggy clearly states that it was sarcasm, made obvious by the excessive hyperbole! Thank heavens we managed to spot this cleverly disguised clue and finally put an end to this fiendishly difficult and almost impossible to solve puzzle."

    Honestly, if I were a WILD Alpha forced to deal with the thinking of RED leaders like Duncan, I would have degenerated into sticking a finger down my throat every 5 minutes to purge myself quite some time ago.
    You can try to backpedal all you want - but I know who told you about the confederation (majorly hinting towards it).

    Quote Originally Posted by PurpLette View Post
    By memory, since I'm not going back to the first page again, it said 'you suck as a secret wing'. That doesn't mean everything about RED sucks... only that it was said RED sucked as a secret wing. It seems obvious from reading this thread, the actual relationship wasn't what any of you hoped for, so let's just consider it to be the truth as seen by both sides. Personally, it could have been more diplomatic. Note: I'm not the context police, it was a passing whim.
    And none of that has any bearing on what you quoted. I'm referring to the simple usage (in whatever context) of "you suck". A lot of what I'm referring to happened before you were added to the Alpha room, so I'm not sure you realize what efforts were made. This is twice now that you have misunderstood me (the last being your mistaken interpretation of a comment I made about Yrachmael), scully.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by duncanidaho View Post
    And that's not.
    You're right, that's not sarcasm at all. But in the interests of coming clean, I exaggerated just a little bit in one part. I don't have dozens and dozens of spies inside RED. I actually have hundreds and hundreds. Honest, Guvnah. Look out, I'm gonna getcha!

    Quote Originally Posted by duncanidaho View Post
    You can try to backpedal all you want - but I know who told you about the confederation (majorly hinting towards it).
    Erm... Casper? My pointy-haired boss? The Romulan Empire?

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by hsarp View Post
    1st thing that's going through my head is.. Get over it ppl.
    Whats done, is done. This server was (I don't know what words to use here that may not sound too offensive) from the start. There is no bases for "I am better and more ethical then you" here because no one is any better. Everyone involved in this were equally at fault, RED & WILD. This went down badly, and that is that. There is frustration on both sides, which is clearly visible. There is only one thing to be done here and that is taking responsibility for these "actions", and moving on.
    Everyone involved played a part, I think most would agree there is no innocent victim here, good on you

    Quote Originally Posted by hsarp View Post
    Now, from the impression I get from my own leaders is that they had good intentions towards all their wings, including the secret wing from the very beginning. This secret was not to be kept a secret for too long. Originally that was the plan, no? Now tell me dear RED leaders, whose plan was it to stretch this secret for so long? You were aware that this secret, if kept from ones own members, for an extended period of time, would perhaps create a lot of controversy within the alliance, did you not? Or was that your intention originally? Why did you come here, on the forums, provoking non-secret WILD members while secretly being a WILD wing leader yourself? In the end it was the non-secret WILD leaders that actually came out into the open with all of this, no? If they hadn't, how much longer would you have kept this to yourselves? What bases is there for saying that RED is in anyway less evil?
    But although there are no innocent victims Wild had good intentions and this is all reds fault, really, did you just start dancing by any change and suddenly change from a waltz to rocking out?

    Quote Originally Posted by hsarp View Post
    @Fleg, you were probably, if I may say, an unfortunate(?) individual in all this, since you did not start out this server with any such agreements, but got involved only later and was probably sworn to secrecy? However, you cannot go around pretending that RED had less to do with this and ICE or Cali are worse than PF or any other RED leader, because they are not. Before you jump at me:
    Excuse me? So their "pretending" to be a WILD wing in the NE and socking the SE? Jumping one quad, moving to the next? How different is that from the beginning? At least WILD, we are alone.. No SW, no NE and no SE.. Guess whose playing 1vs3? That's right baby, we are
    Are you making out WILD is the underdog? really? really? We are talking a group here that when started up, was via a skype room with ALL the leaders of all the Alliances remaining on the server that had ended in an effort to start a super meta, ultimately to do this: all decent alliances are together to destroy any noob / new comers to the server and have a straight through victory with no opposition at all.

    Do tell me, who have wild fought up till now, what makes me laugh most is Froggy "I have dozens and dozens of spies in RED, so in effect lets take that as Dozens (plural) = 24 and Dozens (again plural) = 24, so 48 spies at least in RED, good going! so by this even your enemy is at least good part spies of yours, and yet you still say its 3v1 with WILD being 1

    For someone wanting "Get Over it PPL!!" I think first you need to get over it yourself!

  10. #120
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    Default blah blah blah

    I have every faith in the wild leadership. Maybe Red can keep us entertained for a few weeks, we needed a decent target to practice on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG9twSUVxIQ

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