Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 100

Thread: Conclusion

  1. #41
    Natarian Knight
    Join Date
    19.02.2009
    Posts
    1,942

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mobiyou View Post
    FW: It almost seems you played a different server then we did. First you need to know that Wild came to this server expecting IM, Grid and Axis. We choose S5 hoping for tough competition. Don't blame us if that turned out to be disappointing. Next, we never offered IM a deal to tag team BwB, we offered a deal to tag team Zeus group for reasons well known to most on this server. You say BwB was the best at offense yet you forget that it was Wild who zero'd more capitals and chiefed more hammers then anyone and ran more ops against all three quads.

    It is clear you don't like Wild and I appreciate you were loyal after apparently being forced to play with us. Even being amongst us, you have not managed to see with open eyes what really happened and let you spite against Wild cloud your judgment. I am very sorry for this as I hoped you would be more open minded.

    In general, blaming someone for being good at what they do is really stupid. If you go watch any sporting event, are you going to blame the winner for not losing? And if it is a walkover when the opponent simply isn't good enough, are you going to blame the winner for that also?
    Mobi, your examples don't go far enough. I think it's pretty universal that people who go to sporting events do want to see their teams win, but what's more enjoyable, more satisfying is winning when the taste of defeat is on your tongue. Countless examples of this in sports. No neutral observer wants to see a championship in which one team is blown out - that would be boring, yes? And yes, when good teams start winning too much, they become a villain like the Yankees in baseball, or Patriots in American football. And let's face it, WILD needs taken down a peg or two.
    Don't be a poser, Mongoose. And that is the Final Word.


  2. #42
    Guardsman Pignouf's Avatar
    Join Date
    30.11.2012
    Posts
    101

    Default

    It seems to me that people long for T3.6, in fact
    Past com servers : finals, com10, com2 -com1-com5 (WILD!), com4 (IM)

  3. #43
    Natarian Knight debal's Avatar
    Join Date
    29.06.2011
    Location
    india
    Posts
    747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    I laid blame on three parties: WILD, IM, and TG and explained each fault. You can twist it however you like. My posts back it up.
    Then you definitely were in the wrong server. Apart from you, everyone else were wrong. That can mean only one thing, you are wrong and everyone was right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    Monkey's a good friend and he and I have played far better, more exciting servers
    Birds of a feather flock together. Both of you are obsessed with seeing WILD defeated. Not surprising that you find each other interesting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    The necessity of having to hit early is more so TG's fault for their setup (shortening the server, keeping 1/2 consumption on a WW on resource server, etc.),
    Complain to TG in their ideas forum. You are in the wrong place here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    WILD had a hand in for their boring setup essentially shortening midgame - arties barely out and then it's "oh hey guys, now you need to defend a WW and settle your supports! 'cause yayyyyyy it's EG *orgasm*"
    Boring to you, interesting to us. We never invited you to join WILD. This isnt the first time we took wonder so early in the game, you should have seen it coming. So stop crying about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    Ok, so you call me obsessed and you take the time to "find" me. Yes, HereBeDragons, at your service. Am I to shiver in my boots?
    We don't need to find you. You will find us. And that is why you are running behind us server after server. You shiver in your boots or nor matters little to none to us. You are insignificant.



    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    My inherent nature of never quitting despite the conditions, whether I like them or not, prevents me from doing so.
    I can see that from how you are pursuing your obsession against wild.


    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    I'm more annoyed that a server that WILD was in yet *again* failed to live up to the hype.
    The next server you play, reach out to the leaders of all the teams in the server and give them a llist of things that would amuse you. See how that goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    Really, I don't blame WILD for "Retiring", or running from a challenge like Finals server or fighting Infamous (even if some member overlap) but we all know you'll be back being your annoying and grandiose self putting a crater into your chest with all the self-adulation that is WILD, soon as a meta not-named Infamous or CWL rears their head and calls you out.
    Wild's retirement is a decision that was taken by each of it's leaders. WILD returning would also be the decision of it's leaders. You are no where in the picture, and we are not answerable to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    See you then.
    See, thats what I call obsession. Wonder when you will have your *orgasm*. Opps you just lost your final opportunity to reach your *orgasm*
    Last edited by debal; 07.04.2015 at 07:56.

  4. #44
    Natarian Knight Daki's Avatar
    Join Date
    03.12.2009
    Posts
    1,379

    Default

    Well... You know I remember back in 3.6 when we had 50% crop consumption in WW villages, and when they introduced change of no crop feeding bonus in WW. Me personally way very much against it, because at that point we were seeing number of players on servers reducing, due to various changes in game hammers were being built easier then they used to, so defenses in WW villages were very low, and with hammers way bigger, it cause to see some end games that were lasting for 4 months after CPs, which was simply killing everyone, and by time 2nd month would be over all would just cry for... 'let's just finish it'...

    So naturally this change now was introduced (back to 50%) for which I am very glad and I do think it is a good change. Now, just because you've seen here 20 million def, don't think you will see it on other servers. Some already got finished and defense was no where near that figure. This was kind of extreme good result which resulted in some what shorter end game... but honestly, it is enemies mistake for end game not lasting longer.

    Now, I see someone mentioned, why do you have to send hammers early? Well that never changed, you always had to use different sized WWk in all phases of end game, and if you didn't you were doing yourself counter favor. And I really don't understand argument of mid game being shortened? How is that? It is since arti release to CP spawn, and that time frame is always the same. And how much activity you see from each team in that time frame is something that depend solo on them, and we all know, as far as Wild goes, hammers were rolling for all that time.
    Last edited by Daki; 07.04.2015 at 09:34.
    com5 - Sparky

  5. #45
    Natarian Knight
    Join Date
    12.09.2009
    Posts
    1,184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Word View Post
    Mobi, your examples don't go far enough. I think it's pretty universal that people who go to sporting events do want to see their teams win, but what's more enjoyable, more satisfying is winning when the taste of defeat is on your tongue. Countless examples of this in sports. No neutral observer wants to see a championship in which one team is blown out - that would be boring, yes? And yes, when good teams start winning too much, they become a villain like the Yankees in baseball, or Patriots in American football. And let's face it, WILD needs taken down a peg or two.
    Don't think you get my point. I would agree that a win should not be to easy, but it wasn't as easy as you think and to me it looks like you don't have all the facts. Still, in general I agree that any competition needs to have an adequate level of competition for it to be enjoyable.

    Wild is the villain because they have won all the servers they played on. I understand that and I also understand that it doesn't help that we like to gloat about our achievements. Still you cannot blame Wild for being good at what they do, that is simply wrong. Not liking us is fine as that is not based on objectivity so we can live with that.

    The real issue that should be addressed it the way Travian is developing. Wilds first server (S6 2010) was extremely competitive, that was a T3.6 server with a large player base and skilled alliances opposing Wild. We all would like to go back to something like that. Having said that, Wilds S2 was extremely competitive and it was T4.2. The difference being the high activity from Wilds opponents (mainly Godz, but also USMR and to some extend even MDS). From a competitive point of view, you cannot have any complaints about that server. It shows that, if you adapt to game dynamics, any server can be made competitive. But as I said: "it takes two to tango".

    One of the worst developments in Travian imho, is the reduced WW crop consumption, the in-quad WWs and the increased resource production. If they would just go back to T4.2, the mid- end end-game would be extremely active and much more enjoyable. Still no guarantees as Wilds S7 had all of this and it was a complete push over for lack of serious competition.

    So why don't we separate the points you seem to be addressing:

    - Wild always wins which make people dislike them : point taken.
    - Wild is pretty cocky when it comes to their achievements: point taken.
    - Wild is to blame for the lack of competition: disagree.
    - Wild should be less they can be for the competition to have a chance: disagree.
    - Travian is favoring Defense and Simming to much: point taken.
    - Travian is becoming less competitive and active: partially agree, it is still what you make of it (ref: Wilds S2).
    Winner S1 2009-10 (Eximus/Ave) Winner S6 2010-11 (Wild/Exile), Winner S7/S2/S1/S5 (Wild), Winner S2 2013 (Infamous)

  6. #46
    Pikeman Zomboss's Avatar
    Join Date
    19.01.2015
    Location
    Grey Zone
    Posts
    15

    Default

    I've tried to read as much as I possibly can (it's become unbearable), but Final Word, you couldn't possibly think you're making a reasonable argument could you? I am reading your post and thinking, point one: oh yes, WILD should definitely be commended for that, point two: ah good job WILD, point three: unbelievable tekkers you WILD *****rs. As a veteran you should obviously know that large pre-formed metas, who boast an undefeated record, responsibly would look for the best way to win a server. That is exactly what WILD did. They flushed the opposition out the park.

    I am not going to go against your argument that this server was boring, but I feel you are stretching that claim a bit too far and attempting to say WILD did not do "what was required" in Travian. Their goal from the get-go was to win the server, and win the server they did, in spectacular fashion. You make it sound like this strategy was always certain to win the server, however I can recall other seasoned players - members of WILD - questioning what WILD was attempting and whether it was completely flawed. Hindsight is 20/20 and that is why you feel you can write this post and make these claims. In reality, this was not a routine occurrence. It was an experiment, never fool proof from the start. However, it proved to be a successful one in the end.

    Travian is a game of strategy. IM had been rumoured to always posses large WWKs, and with ZeuS IS DeformeD having UT for the whole server, while raking in tens of millions of resources a week, everyone had expected a monstrous WWk to march from that cheating account. WILD alphas clocked onto this and lo and behold they decided that to stop this monstrous onslaught, they must muster a monstrous amount of defence. And so they did.

    No doubt WILD was the most impressive alliance in defensive effort all server long. No doubt WILD's offensive activity could have been more frequent. However, this narrative of BwB B playing WILD out the park on offensive coordination might just be unfounded. Agreed, BwB B made more daring attacks and potentially on average hit more high profile targets; a respectable feat for a smaller group of players. However, believe it or not, judging from coordinated incomings on WILD's villages, I do strongly believe that WILD indeed had more offensive rounds than any other alliance on the server. Taking that even further, WILD had a more devastating effect on opponents than any other alliance did. BwB B succeeded in zeroing Octor's WWk, and Scooby's WWR (which wasn't much at the time) amongst other impressive feats. WILD not only zeroed Tihana's WWk, which was larger than Octor's at the time of zeroing, but generally wreaked havoc on all quads all through the server, be it local skirmishes or large scale coordinated attacks. Venture into the NW and you will find a barren land, destroyed from many rounds of offensive onslaught. It is no wonder the NW wonder was the only one that got zero popped. EXP (worst alliance all server) had absolutely nothing to show for this server. And WILD's plan for IM and ZeuS resulted in both falling like flies at WILD's wall.

    In my opinion, WILD cannot be faulted on the way they won this server. They set out to achieve a feat no one had ever done. Many questioned if it was possible, and they answered that question. If others decide to follow the WILD blueprint and succeed, then you might be able to question their ingenuity. However, I would question the opposition's lack of ingenuity in not finding a counter. WILD was at times boring, but their goal was always to win the server, and so they did. After it all, the end justifies the means, and so I tip my hat off to WILD. You, Final Word, might have gotten a more fun game being in another alliance on the server, but trust me, that would have only been because you were trying to defend you villages from WILD.

  7. #47
    Natarian Knight lews's Avatar
    Join Date
    17.01.2009
    Posts
    1,554

    Default

    I think final word is trolling everyone. He has this ridiculous argument about how wild is awful for winning in a legitimate and unique fashion, whilst all of his arguments basically boil down to the conclusion that endgame is flawed and TG hasn't done anything but make the problem worse with increased resource production. The "50% wild, 50% TG" "argument" is just cover for petulant whinging. Boy doesn't like someone, boy throws a tantrum about them. Good grief
    ninjaplatypi -s8 2012- Infamous DC
    Ad Astra -s2 2013- Infamous DC
    Popsiclepadawan -s6 2015- Infamous DC

  8. #48
    Thorned Warrior Saku's Avatar
    Join Date
    07.11.2012
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bwb groopie View Post
    kudos to WILD.

    never thought its possible to sustain that big of D... and not only that, overall they did most attacks and proved to be fearsome opponent. this is by far best meta i have ever seen.

    well deserved victory... BA salutes all of you(all of you but Daki ofc :P)

    Marko aka freak_ns
    BWB attacks were strong and effective on Wilds hammer villages. Our def team really tried to catch your hammers on right places. and finally we did catch yours (whew)
    Hats off to your op planning on Wild.

    ME, WILD, GODz, Infamous, Goats, CWL, SGR

  9. #49

    Default

    It may just be that Final Word’s post was perceived as being petulant and as such comes over as more ‘sour grapes’ than meaningful analysis. Some of the deeper points he makes though, have some merit.

    The essence of his gripe, if gripe it be, is that Wild’s choice of strategy made the server more boring.

    This was the first t4.4. Two fundamental changes arose with 4.4. The increased resource boost and the siting of the wonders out from the gray zone, and to fixed locations at the 100/100 points in each quad. With that new possibilities abound. Foremost amongst these is the early settling of wonder support villages. Back in the 3.6 days, wonders spawned randomly and so the building up of a huge support base was impossible, not knowing where the wonders would be located. All that changes in 4.4. It was no accident that Wild had the largest wonder support base. They started building them around day 160. By end game the support structure was a 40 x 40 area centred on the wonder. Feeding massive defences became easy with such a structure. Further, the resource boost permits for earlier ‘power-simming’ and greater defence. Hammers are usually constrained by time not resources. Defence, in my view, is the opposite. The extra resources/villages permit for much greater defence levels. Something which was proved as the server played out.

    To ignore these changes would both be strategically remiss and foolhardy. Accusations which cannot be leveled at Wild. I had a conversation with a Wild alpha pre-artys who explained that were expecting 20 million in their wonder come the close. I thought they were mad. That they accomplished such and were able to feed the same falls down to two factors. The early settlement of wonder support villages, which was planned for, and the seizing of the unique diet, which was both fortunate in where it spawned, and good planning to take advantage of such luck as is thrown ones way. To neither of these factors does fault, or blame attach. It was simply good planning and taking advantage of what t4.4 offered that previous servers did not. As others have stated, Wild saw the changes and adapted, where others were content to play the same old way.

    In light of all of this, why do I say that some of the points Final Word made have merit? I say it because the strategy that Wild employed meant that end game, at least in so far as preps are concerned, commenced in the heart of mid-game, a time which for many is perceived as the most enjoyable. Their choice of strategy turned what could and should have been the most fun part of the game into a more truncated version, with minds already turning to end game preps.

    Where I take issue with Final Word is to ascribe any fault to Wild in this. Wild saw the changes, adapted, and won. That with hindsight the strategy looks not only sensible but the obvious way to adapt to the changing game is testament to their foresight and how right they were. To blame an alliance for playing the right way is misconceived. Blame travian for changing the game if you must, but not an alliance for taking advantage of such.

    In short, could the server have been more exciting – yes. Did commencing end game preps in the mid game contribute to this – in all likelihood yes. Would I expect any alliance to choose to exhibit poor strategic choices merely to entertain its members – no. Do I blame Wild for playing well – quite the opposite. It was nice to play within Wild, even a privilege of sorts and so have a front row seat and even contribute to how events unfolded. Would I like Travian to fix matters such that a winning strategy which prioritises simming over attacking and massive defence over a dynamic changing battlefield is no longer the ‘best move to take’ – yes again, but I do not criticize Wild for playing the cards it was dealt and playing them beautifully.

    Maestro

  10. #50
    Natarian Knight
    Join Date
    19.02.2009
    Posts
    1,942

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zomboss View Post
    I've tried to read as much as I possibly can (it's become unbearable), but Final Word, you couldn't possibly think you're making a reasonable argument could you? I am reading your post and thinking, point one: oh yes, WILD should definitely be commended for that, point two: ah good job WILD, point three: unbelievable tekkers you WILD *****rs. As a veteran you should obviously know that large pre-formed metas, who boast an undefeated record, responsibly would look for the best way to win a server. That is exactly what WILD did. They flushed the opposition out the park.

    I am not going to go against your argument that this server was boring, but I feel you are stretching that claim a bit too far and attempting to say WILD did not do "what was required" in Travian. Their goal from the get-go was to win the server, and win the server they did, in spectacular fashion. You make it sound like this strategy was always certain to win the server, however I can recall other seasoned players - members of WILD - questioning what WILD was attempting and whether it was completely flawed. Hindsight is 20/20 and that is why you feel you can write this post and make these claims. In reality, this was not a routine occurrence. It was an experiment, never fool proof from the start. However, it proved to be a successful one in the end.

    Travian is a game of strategy. IM had been rumoured to always posses large WWKs, and with ZeuS IS DeformeD having UT for the whole server, while raking in tens of millions of resources a week, everyone had expected a monstrous WWk to march from that cheating account. WILD alphas clocked onto this and lo and behold they decided that to stop this monstrous onslaught, they must muster a monstrous amount of defence. And so they did.

    No doubt WILD was the most impressive alliance in defensive effort all server long. No doubt WILD's offensive activity could have been more frequent. However, this narrative of BwB B playing WILD out the park on offensive coordination might just be unfounded. Agreed, BwB B made more daring attacks and potentially on average hit more high profile targets; a respectable feat for a smaller group of players. However, believe it or not, judging from coordinated incomings on WILD's villages, I do strongly believe that WILD indeed had more offensive rounds than any other alliance on the server. Taking that even further, WILD had a more devastating effect on opponents than any other alliance did. BwB B succeeded in zeroing Octor's WWk, and Scooby's WWR (which wasn't much at the time) amongst other impressive feats. WILD not only zeroed Tihana's WWk, which was larger than Octor's at the time of zeroing, but generally wreaked havoc on all quads all through the server, be it local skirmishes or large scale coordinated attacks. Venture into the NW and you will find a barren land, destroyed from many rounds of offensive onslaught. It is no wonder the NW wonder was the only one that got zero popped. EXP (worst alliance all server) had absolutely nothing to show for this server. And WILD's plan for IM and ZeuS resulted in both falling like flies at WILD's wall.

    In my opinion, WILD cannot be faulted on the way they won this server. They set out to achieve a feat no one had ever done. Many questioned if it was possible, and they answered that question. If others decide to follow the WILD blueprint and succeed, then you might be able to question their ingenuity. However, I would question the opposition's lack of ingenuity in not finding a counter. WILD was at times boring, but their goal was always to win the server, and so they did. After it all, the end justifies the means, and so I tip my hat off to WILD. You, Final Word, might have gotten a more fun game being in another alliance on the server, but trust me, that would have only been because you were trying to defend you villages from WILD.
    Everyone keeps spouting something about a "counter strategy" but tell me what is the counter-strategy to piling defense in the WW?

    As for Tihana op, that wasn't even planned by WILD OC, that was planned by my own guy (Because he was bored sh**tless) with our local BG (Who were bored sh**tless), because OCs kept dragging their feet about targets to hit. Was a nice result, and fun - what the game should be about. If you think piling 21m def in a WW is "fun".. well, I guess to each his own. Perhaps, the animosity just stems from polarized philosophies and playstyles.

    Maestro, nice post, much respect for being civil. And yes, that is the part I blame WILD for mostly, that their strategy may have been the best for winning, but perhaps not the best for "entertainment". Perhaps when players have played for long as I have, the winning thing becomes less of value and the fun one gains from playing with your fellow player, strategizing and fighting the enemy in numerous ops becomes increased in value. At some point Wild's illustrious campaign has become more of "what do we as Alphas want" and less of what do you as WILD members want? And I think you explained my position better than I did, and it's clear many here don't really see eye-to-eye on my views, preferring to call me a whiner but they're allowed to have such an opinion.
    Last edited by Final Word; 07.04.2015 at 18:52.
    Don't be a poser, Mongoose. And that is the Final Word.


Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. In Conclusion
    By mfelton1 in forum Politics & diplomacy - World 5
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 08.01.2010, 13:14
  2. A C.R.A.P.py Conclusion!
    By lews in forum Politics & diplomacy - World 1
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21.12.2009, 22:39
  3. My conclusion (Canon-C s1.com)
    By The ones in forum Politics & diplomacy - World 1
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04.01.2009, 01:05

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •